New Haven Planning Commission
New Haven Town Hall
May 3, 2007
Members Present: Allen Karnatz, Stuart MacCrellish, Jim Walsh, Susie Leonard,
Mike Sweeney, Lisa Sanchez, George S. Apgar
Guests: Roger, Boise, Paul Wamsganz – Champlain Oil Company, Landon Smith, Jean Smith, Steve Smith, Michael Forte, Milo Schaefer, Craig Bemis, Bernie Nobel, Candi Swain, Craig Newton, Michael Dunbar, Dave Colander, Patrice Colander, Mike Lee, John Madden, Ramona Morse, Jonathan Chapin, Carl Cole
Allen Karnatz, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 PM.
New Haven Planning Commission Amendment of the Town Zoning Regulations - Public Hearing. The New Haven Planning Commission will hold a public hearing on Thursday, May 3, 2007 at 7:00 PM in the Town Hall Cafeteria in New Haven, Vermont, for the purpose of taking public comment on proposed Amendments of the New Haven Town Zoning Regulations. This hearing is held pursuant to Title 24 V.S.A. Section 4384(d).
1) The revised Town Zoning Map proposed by the Town Planning Commission. Said map was revised to include a new Commercial Zoning District on Ethan Allen Highway. Said District having been approved by the voters of the Town on March 6, 2007.
Michael Dunbar spoke in support of the New Zoning Regulations.
John Madden expressed his concern regarding the large size (appox 15 acres) of the new commercial zoned district. Due to the topography of the lots, especially along Route 7, access will most likely be from Dog Team Road, thus an increase in traffic on Dog Team. The State Police will not provide security or patrol for businesses at these locations. This would put pressure on the Town to provide a police force and this would increase taxes. John reminded the Planning Commission (PC) that procedure to adopt the Zoning Regulations is still in Superior Court. He questions the legality of the Select Board to adopt the new regulations.
Dave Colander expressed a question regarding access to the commercial properties from Dog Team Road. It was his understanding that access to commercial lots could not be through residential. Alan Karnatz indicated that this would be addressed under a Site Plan Review for a proposed business.
Mike Dunbar indicated that for Middlebury Fence there will be no commercial access through Dog Team Road.
John Madden would like tonight’s public hearing comments included in the report that the PC sends out to the surrounding towns.
Alan Karnatz clarified for Mike Dunbar any site plan review cannot be approved until the new zoning regulations are approved. The new zoning regulations become effective 21 days after adoption per State law.
2) The proposed adjustment of front setback distance from 75 to 50 feet of for properties located in the Neighborhood Commercial District. Said adjustment would better meet the existing front setback of the District.
There were no speakers.
3) To amend Section 512(2) Non-Conforming Uses, to extend the time period allowed to re-establish the existing use from one year to two years, in cases involving damage from unnatural causes.
There were no speakers.
4) To amend Section 513(2), Non-Conforming Structures, to extend the time period allowed to re-establish the structure from one year to two years, in cases involving damage from unnatural causes.
Michael Dunbar spoke in support of the Non-Conforming Use changes.
The Public Hearing regarding Zoning Changes closed at 7:15 PM.
The regularly scheduled meeting of the Planning Commission began at 7:16 PM.
1. New Haven Storage and Transfer requests a site plan review to utilize the current VT RR office building and operate a warehouse in a building. Both proposed sites are located on the old OMYA plant site at New Haven Junction. File #2007-SPR-01.
Craig Newton spoke for New Haven Storage and Transfer (NHS&T). NHS&T is currently leasing from VT RR the back two buildings – Bldg #2 and Bldg #3, with a long term goal of cleaning up these buildings and turning them into acceptable locations for business.
Tonight, Craig Newton is asking for a change of use for Bldg. #3. He would use the building to bring product in and store it until it’s redistributed – basically the use would be a warehouse. For Bldg. #2 he would like to use this building in a somewhat similar fashion as Bldg #3 but with an addition of a truck garage.
Craig Newton currently has a 1 year lease but it is considered long term since it can be renewed.
Open for Public Comment
Bernie Noble asked what products will stored at this site. Craig Newton was not certain at this time. He thinks it would be bagged, containerized or palette products, not bulk. All products would be agriculture related, primarily feed materials. Bernie asked if any product would be of the explosive type. Craig indicated no.
Mike Lee questioned the hours of operation and related noise. Craig indicated there would be no set hours of operation, it would be “non-intense – truck traffic and fork lift noises”. There would be no manufacturing or machinery installation type noises.
Mike Lee expressed his concern that the site plan is too vague. He would like to see set hours of operation. Craig Newton mentioned that there are not too many commercial zoned sites in New Haven and he was not in favor of any restrictions.
Bernie Noble was concerned regarding the vagueness of what products would be stored at this site. In addition he would like to see regulations concerning storage for the rental space and their lessees. He would like to see more specifics in what materials or products will be stored at this site. Additionally he is concerned about truck traffic and its increase over what currently is there now.
John Madden would like to see an overall-site plan to help address concerns that have been raised by the public regarding this site plan. Other nuisance factors to consider are rodents and seagulls.
Mike Dunbar mentioned that the Town Plan supports growth in the New Haven Jct. area and this site plan from NHS&T goes along with the Town Plan. Mike reiterated on an earlier comment, that all businesses must receive site plan approval before opening for operation or if there is a change of use.
Public Comment Period Closed
Susie Leonard mentioned that the PC has already done a site plan for other portions of the VT RR (OMYA) property. She is unclear what portions of this property that NHS&T would be taking responsibility for. The site plan presented tonight does not give boundary lines for NHS&T areas of responsibility. Craig mentioned NHS&T would be responsible for the area round Bldg #2, the area around Bldg #3 and the area around Bldg #4. Susie countered that the site plan must show specific lines and areas that NHS&T would be responsible for. Craig mentioned that NHS&T will use everything but Bldg #1.
Craig indicated that his legal council had mentioned that Craig did not really have to come before the PC as the site was already on the use as an industrial warehousing site and manufacturing. Susie asked if Craig’s legal council had a copy of the Town‘s zoning regulations. Craig did not know, but felt they did not.
Stuart MacCrellish mentioned that the Site Plan Review description is very clear what an applicant needs to abide by and present to the PC. The site plan tonight does not meet those regulation requirements. Craig felt that he had addressed all of the issues. He also felt that tonight was suppose to be a general look at the overall property and how it would be developed and look.
Susie mentioned that the site plan should include abutting owners and property lines.
Mike Sweeny asked about usage for the garage. Craig didn’t know what the usages would be yet, and expressed a need to clean up the building first before it can be rented. Mike felt it would be a good idea if Craig presented a complete site plan.
Alan Karnatz indicated it is the responsibility of the owner to come before the PC, not the leasee. In this situation the owner has refused to come as they are claiming exemption from local regulation because of federal RR statues. Therefore, the PC is requesting the leasees to obtain site plan approval. Alan mentioned that Phoenix Feeds presented a more detailed site plan at their review and to overlay Phoenix Feeds’ site plan on what Craig Newton is presenting tonight would be helpful to the PC.
Stuart MacCrellish asked for a point of clarification. Stuart mentioned that Craig Newton’s site plan is very similar to other plans presented for other portions of this property. If Craig leased part of his property to another person for a different use, that leasee would need to present their site plan to the PC for review. Cris Messerle indicated that this was his expectation. Craig mentioned that he is trying to develop the property but at this time he has no idea what business might go in so it would be difficult to define certain aspects of the site plan now.
The question arose was tonight a site plan review and exactly for what? Alan Karnatz explained that a site plan review is for a change of use on an industrial or commercial property. Craig Newton is proposing a different change of use from a lime stone manufacturing facility. Craig is planning a storage and/or pallet warehouse for Bldg #3. Craig at this time does not have a plan for Bldg #2.
Alan Karnatz mentioned that at the time a plan is formulated for Bldg. #2, the new leasee or Craig Newton must come before the PC for a site plan review for Bldg. #2. Craig indicated that he was telling the PC that Bldg #2 was for warehousing.
Stuart MacCrellish asked if Craig was the sole user of the warehouse or would he be leasing it out. Craig indicated that right now he was the sole user. Alan Karnatz mentioned that if Craig leased out Bldg #2 and the usage did not change, a site plan review was not needed as it would not be a change of use.
Alan Karnatz agreed with Susie Leonard, and asked Craig Newton to redo the site plan, delineate Phoenix Feed property so everyone would know that that property is not relevant to Craig's site plan for his portion of this property. If there was a problem in the future, one could reference a more detailed site plan and it would help determined which leesee was responsibility for resolving the issue.
George Apgar would like to discuss the hours of operation and asked to do this in deliberative session. Alan Karnatz indicated that the site plan review does not cover the hours of operation this would be a Zoning Board of Adjustment decision.
Susie Leonard indicated that the PC should indicate conditions on this site plan review to make sure regulations are complied with.
Stuart MacCrellish asked for more clarification and specifics for Bldg #3; where would loading/unloading take place, where trucks will run.
Cris Messerle asked about the office in the existing house, which also houses an apartment. Cris asked for site plan guidelines from the PC, so he and Craig Newton know what the PC wants.
Conditions to be implemented from the applicant are:
Craig Newton will schedule a continuance of this hearing with Cris Messerle
2) Langdon and Jean Smith wish to subdivide their property located at 749 North Street into two lots. This is a minor subdivision. File #2007-SUB-03.
Steve Smith indicated that Langdon and Jean Smith would like to subdivide off 3.79 acres from the 260 acres parcel for a building lot. A Mylar was presented tonight.
Open for Public Comment
None
Public Comment Period Closed
The pins are in, there is 300' of road frontage, the primary and replacement septic areas for the new building lot are shown as well as the replacement septic for the existing residence. The proposed well site is also shown on the Mylar.
Mike Sweeney made the motion to approve the Mylar as presented.
Susie Leonard seconded
Discussion – none
Vote: Yes – 7 No – 0 Abstention – 0
Motion carries.
3). Steven Dupoise requests a conditional use permit to place a 30,000 gallon propane distribution storage tank on his highway commercial property. Said property is located at 229 Ethan Allen Highway. File #2007-SPR-03.
This hearing has been cancelled for tonight. Since the proposed use is a conditional use the PC needs to wait for a Zoning Board of Adjustments (ZBA) ruling first. The ZBA will hold a hearing on May 16, 2007.
4) Champlain Oil Company requests a site plan review to construct a parking lot on their property located at the southeast corner of Ethan Allen Hwy (Route 7) and Main Street (Route 17). The lot would provide overflow parking for their new store location on the 7/17 store property. File #2007-SPR-04.
Paul Wamsganz was the representative for Champlain Oil Company (COC) this evening. Paul briefly explained that COC has approval to raze and rebuild the existing 7/17 store. Construction on this will begin later this month. On the lot to the south of the 7/17 store (the south side of Route 17) COC is proposing to use the eastern half for a septic and mound system. Paul is here tonight to present a plan for the usage concerning the western portion of the parcel.
The proposal shows an entrance onto the lot from Route 17 across from the Post Office. The lot would be a gravel parking area (approx 20,000 sq ft). COC envisions the use of this parking area for parking for local dump trucks or local box trucks or overflowing parking for the newly built store. This request has yet to be approved by VTrans.
Opened for Public Comment
Milo Schaefer asked about the old RR bed and its future use as a possible pedestrian path. Would COC be willing to make a concession to allow a path to go though? Alan Karnatz indicated the RR bed is now privately owned land and there is no public right-of-way.
Mike Lee presented a letter expressing his concerns. Mike had read past PC minutes regarding the approval of the razing and rebuilding of the store, but the minutes did not address any details regarding the lot on the south side of Route 17. Mike explained that he had not received any notification nor did he realize that anything had been approved for this lot. Mike owns the field south of the COC lot and his concern is litter and beer bottles being thrown into the field. He would like to see a fence and screening between the properties.
Also, there is a drainage ditch that goes through the COC lot that serves as a drain for his field. Mike would like to make sure this drainage ditch doesn’t get disturbed.
Bernie Nobel expressed his concern that the parking area would become a holding area of semi tractor trailers and their idling all night. This would affect the quality of the air that he breaths as he lives up the hill from this intersection. Another concern was noise.
John Madden’s concern was the safety of a pedestrian crossway across Route 17 from the parking area to the store located on the north side of Route 17. He also asked why parking could not be on the north side of Route 17 with the store. Paul Wamsganz explained that parking was approved for the store site on the north side of Route 17. Parking on the lot to the south side of Route 17 would be for larger trucks and semi-tractor trailers that cannot fit into the car parking area approved in front of the store location. Paul explained that there is a need for this type of parking and COC thought this would be a logical spot as it would be close to the store.
Bernie Nobel mentioned that the area designated for the mound system would be adjacent to wetlands. Was approval from the State obtained? Paul indicated yes.
Ramona Morse indicated that making the western half of the lot on the south side of Route 17 an excellent idea for long term parking for cars. This would eliminate traffic blockage which is occurring now between the store (located on the north side of Route 17) and her property to the east. Paul indicated that due to liability issues, COC cannot put in a park n’ ride type facility for cars nor can COC put in trash cans or lighting. COC is suggesting this area will be parking for trucks and overflow short term parking for people shopping at their store.
Mike Lee questioned the no trash cans on this site. Paul indicated that if trash cans were located onsite then it would encourage illegal dumping. Candi Swain asked who would be responsible for trash left in the parking area. Paul Wamsganz indicated that COC employees would be responsible for cleanup. Mike Lee again expressed his concern for some type of fencing along the property lines between the parking area and his field.
John Madden indicated that this parking lot was not essential to the operation of the store. He encouraged the PC to accept the septic area of this site plan, but not accept the parking area.
Public Comment Section closed
Lisa Sanchez asked if there would be a sign indicating NO OVERNIGHT PARKING – Paul indicated there would be.
Both Susie Leonard and Stuart MacCrellish expressed their concerns regarding safety issues with pedestrians crossing Route 17 with or without a cross walk.
Mike Sweeney asked about plans for the existing building (garage) because where it is located hides the line of sight around the corner. Paul Wamsganz indicated that there is value where this building is located and there are no plans to tear it down. A future use for this building could be a small retail store or bank drive through. Paul again reiterated that tonight he was asking for approval of a gravel parking lot to use as overflow parking for the store.
John Walsh indicated he would like to see conditions included on this site plan. Conditions to be:
Lisa Sanchez indicated her concern with the speed of traffic and pedestrians crossing Route 17. Cris Messerle indicated the intersection area of Routes 7&17 is a 40 mph zone and if vehicles are turning onto Route 17 they are slowing down to make the turn. Paul Wamsganz again indicated that this parking area was for the use of truckers, not family vehicle parking. Family vehicle parking would be in front of the store on the other side of the road.
Susie Leonard pointed out that the town's zoning regulations state that abandoned buildings are to be removed from the site 6 months from abandonment and this building has been abandoned therefore it has not value as an exiting non-conforming use. Keeping it with any intention to rebuild/rehab it is therefore not an option. Paul Wamsganz indicated that they are still relocating items out of the building so he does not believe that it has not been abandoned.
Lisa Sanchez made the motion to approve the site plan with the following conditions:
Jim Walsh seconded
Discussion:
Mike Lee would also like to see a chain link fence installed in addition to conifers along the southern edge of the property to catch blowing trash. He is also concerned about the location of the drainage ditch and how it may affect his property. Stuart MacCrellish mentioned that the location of the septic system and its relation to the drainage ditch was previously approved and not part of this discussion. The respective owners could continue this discussion at a different time.
George Apgar asked if the PC needed to address Section 610 – Non residential parking lot. Alan Karnatz read Section 610. Discussion commenced regarding screening from Route 7.
Susie Leonard moved to amend the motion to include screening on the Western (along Route 7) and Southern edges of the parking area.
Lisa Sanchez seconded
Discussion – none
Vote: Yes- 3 No – 4 Abstention – 0
Motion did not carry
Back to the original motion:
Motion to approve the site plan with the following conditions:
Vote: Yes- 6 No – 1 Abstention – 0
Motion carries.
5) HillTop RV Center request a continuance of their site plan review for their proposed construction of a new service garage and additional parking area. Site located at 7404 Ethan Allen Highway. File #2007-SPR-02.
Scott LaFave (owner and partner of HillTop RV) stated he would like to do this project with the least impact and the least amount of money spent. He began by addressing the questions that were raised during the site visit held on Saturday, April 14, 2007.
Scott contacted the State of Vermont as well as David Minor and Stephen Delphia (both individuals could not be present at tonight’s meeting) with regard to the septic mound system. In Scott’s discussion with the State, the south side of the septic mound where the proposed new building is intended, that particular side is the high part of the mound according to the State, Mr. Delphia and Mr. Minor. No permits or alterations were necessary because the high side of the mound system does not do anything. The mound system on this property was created so drainage flows away from the property being the low side toward the field. The low side can’t be obstruct so they can’t do anything with that area but it's OK to alter the topography of the high portion of the mound. Mr. Minor and Mr. Delphia came and looked at the septic tanks and both were in agreement that the tanks can be driven over. “At the current depths of those tanks a tractor trailer could drive tanks are located the tanks over them without damaging the tanks. Any earth put on top of the septic tanks would only make the area more structurally sound to drive on”.
Footprint coverage with the proposed new building was discussed. Currently there is 152,460 sq ft of earth; a 540 ft long by 25 ft wide paved track; removal of the track gives 13,500 sq ft back to permeable earth. The main office building of 2,470 sq ft, the storage building down back of 800 sq ft, and the proposed building (garage) of 60 x 80 or 4,800 sq ft, equals total coverage of 8,070 sq ft. which is less than 6% coverage of the property.
Scott feels that by addressing these items he has addressed the questions that were brought up at the site visit. Scott indicated that he would like to obtain any permits needed and move quickly on this project. If an engineer is not needed, that is fine because Scott doesn’t want to pay for one.
Open for Public Comment
John Madden mentioned the number of parking spaces for the units as shown in the original site plan. He recalls fewer parking spaces for units then what he sees currently on site as he drives by. John asked if the traffic islands had been installed. Also what is the height of the proposed new building?
Scott LaFave indicated that the traffic islands are installed and he has parked units behind those islands. The height of the new proposed building will be 26 foot tall.
Alan Karnatz asked if Scott LaFave had come forward with a new plan. Scott indicated the he is still trying to proceed with the original plan.
Public Comment Closed
Brent Nape, general manager of HillTop RV, indicated that HillTop RV’s immediate concern was to get the proposed building up. The issues surrounding the parking lot could be addressed at a different time.
Scott LaFave indicated that he had addressed all questions of concern from the site visit and with his discussions with the State, Mr. Minor and Mr. Delphia. Minor and Delphia said that he could place fill up to the high side of the mound and drive over the septic tanks. Therefore, Scott doesn't understand why he can’t begin utilizing the area as a drive through and turn around for the service garage and overflow unit parking.
Cris Messerle checked with the Town Attorney Jim Ouimette about concerns raised during review of the original site plan and again after the April 2007 PC meeting over the number of unit parking spaces. It is Jim Ouimette's opinion that any parked vehicles and/or RV units behind the front portion of the property (i.e. behind the existing building) is a violation of the original site plan approval because the plan does not show or allow parking in the rear of the property. Therefore, additional parking in the rear would need to be part of a new site plan.
The original site plan was approved for 33 unit parking spaces. Scott LaFave indicated that as of today there are 46 units on site.
Alan Karnatz expressed concerns regarding the violation from the existing site plan. This lead to a discussion about whether HillTop RV had received ZBA approval to operate a motor vehicle repair business as required in the Highway Commercial District. Cris Messerle confirmed that a conditional use permit was issued to HillTop RV from the ZBA in 2005.
Before proceeding with this site plan the PC wants the following items addressed in more detail:
A continuation of this hearing will be at the June 7, 2007 meeting. At that time Scott LaFave should bring both the written documentation and have professional representation to speak to the above related subjects.
The Public Hearing Portion of this meeting ended at 9:45 PM
Visitor’s Business
1) Carl Cole wishes a sketch plan review for a proposed 3 lot subdivision on the land of Margo Merritt located on North Street.
Carl Cole presented documentation indicating he was acting as agent for Margo Merritt. Currently there is 21.2 acres of land with an existing residence. Margo would like to subdivide the land into 3 lots; one lot will include the existing residence and two new lots, these lots will be constructed using the PUD system.
Discussion commenced regarding the PUD system for this site.
Alan Karnatz mentioned that this would be a major subdivision and require two public hearings.
Susie Leonard would like to see a conveyance on the final Mylar indicating – no more subdivisions on these three lots.
Lisa Sanchez made the motion to have a site visit on Saturday, May 12, 2007 at 8:30 AM.
Susie Leonard seconded
Discussion – none
Vote: Yes – 6 No – 1 Abstention – 0
Motion carries
George Apgar made the motion to warn this site plan for a preliminary hearing at the July 5, 2007 meeting.
Stuart MacCrellish seconded
Discussion – none
Vote: Yes – 7 No – 0 Abstention – 0
Motion carries.
End of Visitor’s Business
Old Business
Alan Karnatz met with the Select Board regarding Mark Smith’s plan to have the Town hold an open space agreement for the front portion of his property. The Select Board had only 2 members present that night and they were lukewarm to the idea. Alan and other PC members will present this again to the Select Board when all members are present.
Correspondence
Growth Centers Program by the State – to be held May 10 via interactive TV
Approval of Minutes
Mike Sweeny made the motion to approve the April 5, 2007 minutes.
Susie Leonard seconded
Discussion – none
Vote: Yes – 7 No – 0 Abstention – 0
Motion carries
New Business
A work night meeting is in the works.
Susie Leonard made the motion to adjourn
Mike Sweeney seconded
Discussion – none
Vote: Yes – 7 No – 0 Abstention – 0
Motion carries
The meeting adjourned at 10:45