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New Haven Planning Commission

New Haven Town Hall

September 1, 2005

Members Present: Allen Karnatz, Keith Hall, Susie Leonard, Don Johnston,

John Evers

Members Absent: Tom Boise and Jim Walsh

Guests: Jamey Holstein, Ron LaRose, Mary Ellen Kinney, Diana Godfrey, Steve Giles, Bill Shafer, Milo Schaefer, Charles "Lee" Charron, Brenda Charron, Philip Livingston, Dawn Livingston, Marie Livingston, Dana Livingston, Mark Livingston, Steve Revell, Peter Norris, Sr., Marilyn Grice, Chris Allison

Allen Karnatz, Chairman, called the meeting to order at 7:00 PM.

Public Hearing

1. James Schaefer wishes to subdivide his land on Otter Creek Highway (Route 17). This will be a continuation of the first plat hearing of a major subdivision. SUB 3-05.

Jamey Holstein represented James Schaefer tonight. Jamey presented the completed Plat revision by Norman Smith, Surveyor. The major change shown on this Plat shows the access off Route 17 has been moved, Jamey Holstein had a letter of intent from the Vermont Department of Transportation (DOT) for approval of a single access off Route 17 versus two separate entrances. The reason, DOT would have to bring in too much fill for one of the accesses. All the required well, and septic and shared pump station (primary and replacements) are shown with all the required isolation distances met.

Allen Karnatz wanted to clarify that James Schaefer was seeking his first hearing approval tonight for his major subdivision. John Ever indicated that at the Planning Commission (PC) in August didn't feel they could approve the subdivision. Allen Karnatz indicated to Jamey Holstein that at the next hearing (final) that the pins should be set prior to the Mylar's being presented.

Steve Giles, neighboring property across from the proposed subdivision, introduced himself. He had no comments.

Susie Leonard made the motion to approve the preliminary plat as presented.

John Evers' seconded the motion.

Discussion – Don Johnston indicated the survey needs to show closure along Route 7.

Vote Yes – 5 No – 0 Abstention – 0

Motion carries.

2. William (Bill) Shafer wishes to establish a Miniature Golf Course and convert a small barn to a retail sports shop on his commercial lot on Ethan Allen Highway (Route 7).

John Evers' recused himself from participation in this hearing as he his a member of the Addison County Home Health and Hospice (neighboring property).

Bill Shafer gave a brief background history of property involved. Is now proposing to put in a miniature golf course where the greenhouses once stood and would like to convert the existing barn into a retail shop.

Allen Karnatz indicated that there are 7 items listed in the regulations the PC must review for any commercial site plan. The primary items are parking and vehicle access, among other items indicated in the regulations, lighting, and landscaping/screening are also indicated.

Susie Leonard asked if there was a map showing what the zoning designations were for this area. The map shows that what is being proposed by Bill Shafer will be located in the commercial zone. The land behind the commercial zoned area is residential.

Bill Shafer indicated that he checked with Sandi Young (quite awhile ago), Sandi indicated that if both lots met the minimum acreage requirements there was no conflict of use.

Allen Karnatz indicated that if there was an interest a site visit could be arranged.

Keith Hall indicated that letter arrived from the Champlain Green Belt Alliance, Kate Lampton. Allen Karnatz read the letter. Concerns expressed in the letter were:

Parking standards may not sufficient for this site (2 to 4 spaces per hole)
Applicant should submit a scaled drawing showing parking and building improvements.
Lighting considered and directed downward, no flood lights.
Landscaping a tree line on the south would be appropriate.

Don Johnston asked if the standard parking space size was 10 feet wide. Bill Shafer indicated that his were 10 feet and were laid out by a professional.

Susie Leonard asked what is the PC role in approval of this plan and was the PC expected to approve this sketch plan from a hand drawn picture. Allen Karnatz indicated that the PC is reviewing the commercial site plan use whether the parking is adequate, and whether the plan is safe as per the PC regulations. Keith Hall indicated that the hand drawn sketch was the application to the Town indicating what the individual wants to do at the site. Susie then asked if the PC didn't require a more professional drawing for a commercial application. Allen Karnatz indicated that is typically what the PC requires. Susie Leonard indicated that she felt she needed more information regarding this commercial development, as this location is the gateway to the Town of New Haven, and felt uncomfortable to determine what was presented with the pencil drawing. Allen Karnatz indicated that the site visit might be appropriate.

Bill Shafer indicated that there have been prior applications approved by the PC in the past on exactly the same criteria he as presented tonight. Bill indicated that unless there was a prior set criteria, is the PC changing the rules tonight and feel that he is being singled out.

Don Johnston indicated that there have been PC Board changes over the years and since he has been on the Board over a year, everyone that has presented a commercial site sketch has had to conform to these rules. Bill Shafer indicated that the PC board before has set a standard (before Don Johnston's appointment) and feels he is being singled out. Keith Hall mentioned that when he took over as Zoning Administrator, all commercial development applications have needed a site plan, which may not have always been carried out before, Keith has made sure to make note on the application that a site review is needed. Allen Karnatz indicated that he has been Chairman for a year and prior to his being Chair, there have been instances where site visits have not been done, but since he has been Chair, site reviews have been done. Bill Shafer indicated that since 1990 the regulations have been administered very lackadaisical, precedence has been established, and that is what needs to be adhered to by every applicant. Allen Karnatz stated that he did not feel that the PC has "jumped the gun" or singled Bill Shafer's plan out, the PC is reviewing the plan has they have with all commercial plans since Allen Karnatz has been Chair.

Bill Shafer indicated that since there have no new laws on the books since 1990 then the guidelines that have been established should be adhered to for every applicant. Bill indicated that he had spoken to 3 attorneys regarding this and all will say the same thing. Susie Leonard indicated that if the past PC Boards have done things differently or erroneously over time, that doesn't justify continuing to do something erroneously. Bill Shafer indicated that he wanted the PC to adhere to the standards that had been established. Susie Leonard indicated that she is adhering to the standards in the regulations.

Item in Section 351 and 352, were then gone through. Item 3 asks for a map showing existing features. Susie Leonard indicated that she could not tell from the map where the existing parking is. Bill Shafer asked what the PC would like to see in terms of parking. As per the last site plan approved by the PC, Bill Shafer showed existing parking and explained new parking for employees and customers and feels he has adhered to Section 351.

Bill Shafer indicated that the biggest issue should be lighting.

Allen Karnatz proposed a site visit for Wednesday, September 13, 2005 at 7:30 AM.

Bill Shafer indicated that cosmetics are important and wants to discuss lighting and feels the Fire Department needs to visit all commercial site plan locations. Allen Karnatz indicated that he has been in contact with the Chief of the Fire Department regarding this.

Set back discussion ensued on where the front line of the property is located. Keith Hall indicated from the centerline of the road 75 feet, that is how he measured it for the previously approved site plan. Bill Shafer indicated that the building was preexisting and going by the definitions in the regulations, it indicates from the property line. Allen Karnatz indicated that the regulations have 2 conflicting definitions. Measured from and starts from, can be interrupted 2 different ways. Bill Shafer wants to know if he has 320 feet of depth from the center of the highway, or 320 feet of depth from the beginning of his property; does his lot line starts from the center of the road or from the edge of his property. Keith Hall will check with the Town's attorney on the definition on lot depth with hopefully a definition by the Wednesday site review.

Bill Shafer indicated that the hours of operation for the Miniature Golf will be from May through September and until 11:00 PM. Indicated that it will be shield/shade lighting and limit pole height. Don Johnston asked how many lights? Bill Shafer showed a lighting plan that is standard of this type of operation, the plan shows the middle lights at 25 feet high and 15 feet high on the sides. Bill Shafer asked if there was any informal conclusion or feedback on the hours of operation now from the PC? Don Johnston asked if there were any comments from the neighboring motel owners? Bill Shafer indicated that he wasn't sure.

Bill Shafer is willing to do what landscaping and/or screening that may be necessary.

No action was taken tonight, pending the site review on Wednesday, September 13, 2005.

Public Hearing ended at 8:10 PM

1. Visitor's Business

a. Phil Livingston and Steve Revell from Lincoln Applied Geology, Inc., presented a sketch plan for a major 2-lot subdivision of the Livingston farm, bordering Pearson Road, New Haven. The new lots will be 2.19 acres and 2.15 acres on Pearson Road. Lot #1 in the northwest corner and lot #2 in the southwest corner. Allen Karnatz indicated that it looked straightforward.

Don Johnston made the motion to accept this as a major subdivision.

Susie Leonard seconded the motion.

Discussion – none.

Vote: Yes – 5 No – 0 Abstention – 0

Motion carries.

b. Diane Godfrey, Mary Ellen Kinney and Ron LaRose, LaRose Surveying, presented a sketch plan for a 2 acre with existing house subdivision and line adjustment on the Bottom property on the east side of North Street. Mr. Perkins' (neighbor) approached the applicant about a boundary line adjustment, as his barn face is the current property line. A 15 feet set back was initially agreed upon, since a new property line is be created, do they have to conform to the regulations of 25 feet.

Diane Godfrey indicated that the remaining lands will be in Current Use. John Evers' indicated that an easement might be the way to go. Diane Godfrey indicated that the Perkins' want to purchase the land.

Allen Karnatz indicated that the PC could not approve a boundary line adjustment of 15 feet because of the set back issue with the neighbor. For a boundary line adjustment of less than 24 feet, 11 inches from the barn need they will need to go to the Zoning Board of Adjustment, for a boundary line adjustment of 25 feet or more the PC can rule on, or have an easement done which is not an issue.

Allen Karnatz is looking for approval of sketch plan for a minor subdivision for a 2 acre lot. Ron LaRose presented a site sketch with the replacement wastewater design.

John Evers' made the motion to warn for a boundary line adjustment and minor subdivision for the October 2005 PC meeting.

Susie Leonard seconded the motion.

Discussion – none.

Vote Yes – 5` No – 0 Abstention – 0

Motion carries.

c. Jon Apgar - no show.

d. Pete Norris, Sr., had a question regarding his recently approved subdivision. If he were to cluster the buildings with shared parking, which is okay for residential use in the New Haven regulations, is it okay for commercial use.

Don Johnston asked if the property lines stay as is? Pete Norris Sr., indicated yes. Due to the passage of Chapter 117 does this overrule the local town regulations. The Town's PRD does not include commercial development.

The PC could not give a clear answer to this question at this time. No action was taken.

e. Allen Karnatz recused himself from this discussion.

Lee Charron presented a sketch plan for a 2 lot subdivision on Lime Klin Road with a +/- 6 acre lot on the west side of the road and a +/- 7 acre lot on the east side of the road, and retain 15 acres for future development, the rest of the acreage will be in Land Trust. John Evers' indicated that the zoning is 2 acres along Lime Klin Road.

Discussion ensued on if these lots needed to show wastewater and replacement systems even if one of the lots would not be developed. Don Johnson indicated that it would be to the Charron's best interest to show septic capabilities for all lots.

Keith Hall indicated the Charron's would need to submit 2 separate applications for 2 minor subdivisions, because Lime Kiln road dissects the property.

Keith Hall made the motion to accept the sketch plan for approval and warned as a minor subdivision for the next PC meeting.

Susie Leonard seconded.

Discussion – By September 19^th the Charron's will need to present 2 applications, 2 fees, a survey for each proposal and 2 Mylars.

Vote Yes – 4 No – 0 Abstention – 1 Allen Karnatz

Motion carries.

f. Marilyn Grice and Chris Allison presented a sketch plan for a 2 lot subdivision off of River Road. There is a 15 acre piece of land that Marilyn Grice would like to divide into 2 lots.

Upon review of the sketch plan, Don Johnston indicated that each proposed new lot is required to have 400 feet of frontage. Marilyn Grice indicated that she would redraw the plan to show this.

John Evers' made the motion to warn this as a major subdivision for November.

Keith Hall seconded

Discussion - none.

Vote Yes – 5 No – 0 Abstention – 0

Motion carries.

Visitor Business closed at 9:30 PM

2. Review of August 2005 minutes.

Don Johnston made the motion to accept the minutes as presented.

Keith Hall seconded.

Discussion – none

Vote Yes – 4 No – 0 Abstention – 1 Allen Karnatz

Motion carries.

3. Correspondence

Notice of John Madden's court docket appealing Peter Norris Sr., subdivision.

Letter from John Hall on Chapter 117 revisions.

VELCO redesign of the New Haven Substation

Registered letter sent from PC to Greg West and refused twice.

Environmental Court Procedures.

Invitation from the New Haven Select board to attend the Dana King Open House.

4. New Business

a. Discussion and adopt operational rules for conducting PC meetings. John Evers' made the motion to take this up at the next work night session. Susie Leonard seconded. There was no further discussion. Vote: yes – 5; No – 0; Abstention – 0. Motion carried.

5. Old Business

a. Work session scheduled for September 15 at 6:30 PM,

b. John Madden filed a complaint again Keith Hall pertaining to the Peter Norris, Sr., subdivision on Route 7. John Evers' will look into Chapter 117 revision to make sure when they go into effect.

6. Adjournment

Allen Karnatz made the motion to adjourn the meeting

Keith Hall seconded.

Discussion – none

Vote: Yes – 5 No – 0 Abstention – 0

Motion carried.

The meeting was adjourned at 10:00 PM.

Respectfully Submitted by:

Karen Gallott