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New Haven Planning Commission Meeting
January 6, 2005
New Haven Town Hall
Members Present: Allen Karnatz, Tom Boise, Art Sherman, Don Johnston, Keith Hall,
John Evers, Jim Walsh
Guests: John Madden, Ethan Mitchell, Louis dePont, Pat Colander, David Colander, Dolores Norris, Pete Norris, Sr., Richard Sawyer, Kenneth Sawyer, Doug Woos, Dennis Woos, Steve Revell, Denton Lyon, Don LaFave, Peter Fournier, Donna Fournier, Milo Schaefer, Kate Lampton, Rudy Drexler
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 PM. Allen Karnatz asked for a moment of silence for the passing of George (Bus) Merritt, New Haven Resident, on New Years Day.
1) Louis duPont – Stark Mountain Woodworking – Storage building on property located on South Street.
Would like to construct a lumber storage shed 16' x 66' on a slab 25' from the existing building.
He has applied to the State and received a building permit. John Evers asked if they had applied for a building permit from the town? Keith Hall indicated that they had not. John Evers asked if there were any setback issues. Keith Hall indicated that there were no issues. Allen Karnatz asked if Stark Mountain Woodworking would be planning any further construction in the future. Louis duPont indicated that this project should be enough for the time being. Jim Walsh asked if 25' from the existing building would be enough turn around for truck traffic and the Fire Department. Louis duPont indicated that the existing means of egress is a north/south direction and this storage building would not be a hindrance to egress.
Jim Walsh made the motion to approve the site plan as presented. John Evers 2nd.
Discussion – None
Vote: Yes – 6 No – 0 Abstentions – 1(Don Johnston)
Motion carries.
2) Sue Perna and Jamie Hutchins – No Show
3) Pete Norris, Sr., Subdivide parcel on the West side of Route 7 – First hearing of a major subdivision SUB.7-04.
Peter Norris, Sr., indicated where the property is located and explained that he is planning a 6-lot subdivision. 5 lots would be 2 to 2.5 acres in size and the remainder of the property would remain residential. The Agency of Natural Resources (ANR) has approved the septic plans drawn up by Otter Creek Engineering. Because of septic restrictions, Pete does not see a shopping center or eat-in restaurant located on the property. Instead he envisions small business located in the area that employ 5 to 10 individuals, this would fit in with the Town of New Haven's Highway Commercial zoning. Pete provided a Warranty Deed and presented a survey of the whole property. The survey showed topographic map contours and two septic areas the primary and replacement for the residential lot, which was approved in April of 2004. Pete also emphasized the building designs for the remaining 5 commercial lots, would be approved by the Town during the Site Plan review.
The Planning Commission opened comments to the public.
John Madden expressed 3 areas of concern: 1) Traffic flow hazard 2) The Town Plan is specific on maintaining a scenic corridor along Route 7, and 3) The anticipation of a newly revised Town Plan which may change the zoning regulations. John also quoted subdivision regulations 410.1 and 410.5.
David Colander indicated that an entrance onto Dog Team Road would change the nature of Dog Team Road, from a residential to a commercial route. Pete Norris, Sr. indicated that truck traffic (especially southbound trucks) would be directed to exit to the North onto Campground Road, then onto Route 7.
David Colander challenged that Dog Team Road would be a much easier route for traffic/trucks if going south, because the southerly entrance/exit of Dog Team Road is much easier to access onto Route 7. Pete Norris, Sr., explained that since the Town Road Commissioner approves the road access, the Commissioner could limit the number of cars/trucks to those associated with the small businesses.
Jim Walsh wondered if there was a posted truck weight limit currently on Dog Team Road and if a weight and 40 mph speed limit would limit traffic on Dog Team Road. Pete Norris, Sr., didn't know, but indicated that most roads within the Town have a 16,000 lbs limit for the winter months (January – May).
Kate Lampton indicated a concern regarding visual impact and suggested a building envelope to maintain building grouping and keep some areas open. Suggested the use of a Landscape Architect to set up building envelopes. Also to obtain traffic counts from an engineer.
Allen Karnatz indicated that these comments would be more appropriately addressed at the Site Plan Review, and not at this meeting. Pete Norris, Sr., indicated that the intent of this meeting was to address the subdivision of the land into 6 lots. Many of the concerns voiced tonight would be addressed when actually building would commence in the future.
Dennis Woos asked if the access road placement is decided on during the subdivision plan. Allen Karnatz indicated that roads are for discussion at this time.
Peter Fournier asked about run off. Pete Norris, Sr., mentioned that it was a gradual grade to seepage ponds. When the building is constructed the approval plans will show the runoff.
Ethan Mitchell expressed concerns regarding the widening of Campground Road and possible installation of streetlights on Campground Road and on the access road. Pete Norris, Sr., indicated that the access road would be a private road, though a turning lane improvement may be a possibility on Campground Road.
Peter Fournier asked what the current number of trucks that travel Campground Road to Route 7 are. Peter Norris, Sr., indicated that it was a fair number, but didn't know an exact figure.
Donna Fournier differs on Pete Norris comment that "progress comes with expense".
Milo Schaefer indicated that the Town has a vision on what Route 7 should look like and agrees with John Madden's idea that this subdivision should be delayed until a new Town Plan is in place. Visual impact is a critical point and buildings should fit in with the overall beauty of Vermont. Milo asked for a clear explanation on how the access road links to Campground Road and Dog Team Road. Pete Norris, Sr., indicated that he didn't think the Town was close to accepting a new Town Plan in the near future. Allen Karnatz explained that the Town Plan was in the process of being updated, but that would not change the zoning regulations.
Dennis Woos asked for clarification on the traffic flow going out onto Route 7 and wondered if Dog Team Road and the little jog in the road would be the responsibility of the Town or State. Also, is it the Planning Commission responsibility to analyze road access. Pete Norris, Sr. indicated that the preferred exit would be out onto Campground Road, as Dog Team Road was not a favorable access. The State prefers one intersection, not multiple ones, as it is cost prohibitive. But the State didn't deny multiple accesses. As for analyses of road access, Allen Karnatz indicated that it was a dual role between the Select Board and the Planning Commission.
David Colander asked about the access road. As the road is on the line between residential and commercial, would it be a commercial road or a residential access. Pete Norris, Sr. clarified.
Kate Lampton emphasized the clarification of building envelopes and to look at the Site Plan comprehensively. John Evers asked to Kate, are you suggesting that the Planning Commission alter set back requirements for this project?. Kate indicated, "yes". Pete Norris, Sr., asked if the Planning Commission could subjectively change the zoning policy and indicated that changes to a subdivision via the Town Plan should not be subjective but black and white.
John Madden mentioned that AOT is not planning to widen Route 7.. Pete Norris, Sr., clarified that widening might take place on Campground Road and a possible improvement of a turning lane in the southbound lane. John Madden emphasized the scenic corridors along Route 7 should be maintained and agriculture should be encouraged. Did not believe that new zoning laws via the new Town Plan would take 2/3 years but would happen sooner and that the current regulations 410.1 and 410.5 should be looked at.
Don Johnston asked Pete Norris, Sr., if he would consider a cul-de-sac and make all traffic exit onto Campground Road. Jim Walsh wondered if Dog Team Road could be posted at a
"No Through Traffic" for trucks and keep the access road with 2 means of ingress and egress for Fire Department and Rescue.
John Ever's would like to hear from the Fire Department concerning a north/south access, and would like a clearer definition regarding the north end of Dog Team Road and the south end of this property. Don Johnston would like to know what entity would be responsible for the maintenance of the road and if a cul-de-sac would work. Allen Karnatz indicated that traffic flow was a large concern and Tom Boise mentioned the need for a possible 2nd access in case of an accident at the intersection of Campground Road and Route 7.
At this point, Peter Norris, Sr. stated that because of all the concerns about traffic onto Dog Team Road, he would pursue either an emergency only access from Dog Team Road or a direct road cut onto Route 7.
John Ever's made the motion to continue this hearing to the next regularly scheduled meeting to address the issues of posting Dog Team Road, traffic safety ingress and egress. Don Johnston 2nd.
Discussion – none.
Vote: Yes – 7 No – 0 Abstention – 0
Motion carries.
4) Denton Lyon, first plat hearing of a major subdivision SUB.6-04
Due to an error in the wording of the notice, this hearing was not properly warned to the residents of New Haven. It will be re-warned properly for the next regularly scheduled meeting of the Planning Commission. In the meantime it was decided by the Planning Commission that Denton Lyon could go ahead and present what he had, but it would not be officially acted on at this meeting.
Denton Lyon has a total of 179.9 acres that he would like to subdivide into 6 lots. AOT has approved 2 accesses on the north side onto Route 17. AOT has not approved any access on the south side of Route 17. AOT has suggested that the planned access on the south side be moved further to the east.
Stevephe
Revell of Lincoln Applied Geology, Inc. indicated that each lot would have
individual septic systems. The topography of the land does not warrant cluster
housing.
Denton indicated that there is a small parcel of land that would either go with Lot #1 or possibly go to Nancy Tanner (abutting neighbor). Steve Revell indicated that there were 3 alternatives regarding this small parcel. 1) it would go with Lot 1. 2) it would go with Lot 2 with a driveway on a right-of-way through Lot 1, or 3) it would go to Nancy Tanner. Steve asked the Planning Commission what they preferred.
Rudy Drexler (abutting neighbor) indicated that he has 2 ponds on his property and since Beeman School put in their mound system on land above his property, his ponds have not been the same since. It was indicated that the flow from Lot 5 would be directed away from his ponds.
Rudy also mentioned traffic access onto Route 17; especially going west was extremely dangerous due to the hill. Richard Sawyer also indicated his concerns regarding traffic and accessing Route 17. Steve Revell indicated that since the AOT has not given road cut access from the property (Lot 5) located on the south side of Route 17, that they were indeed addressing the traffic concerns. Denton mentioned that he would be happy to proceed with his plans and keep Lot 5 undeveloped until the AOT approves of an access.
Regarding Lot 4, Don Johnston asked, out of the 10 acres, how much of this land was located in a flood zone and would there be enough land to build on. Allen Karnatz mentioned that, that was a conditional use and would need to go to the ZBA to get a building permit and make sure the house is not in a flood plain.
Rudy Drexler wondered if there was a stipulation on the land regarding the type(s) of structures (i.e. trailers, houses sq. ft to be stipulated, junk yard, etc.) that could be put on the land. This is something that Denton had not thought of. Allen Karnatz mentioned that the Zoning regulations do not restrict the type of dwelling.
Steve Revell suggested that for the next meeting that the flood plain would be added on the map for Lot 4, and the existing Lyon residence would show the primary system. Don Johnson asked that the set back also be shown.
Tom Boise made the motion to Re-warn the preliminary hearing until the next regularly scheduled meeting of the Planning Commission. Art Sherman 2nd.
Discussion – none
Vote: Yes – 7 No – 0 Abstention – 0
Motion carries.
Public Meeting Ended at 9:30 P.M.
Review of the December 2, 2004 minutes.
Allen Karnatz made the motion to approve the minutes of the December 2, 2004 meeting. Keith Hall 2nd.
Discussion – none
Vote: Yes – 6 No – 0 Abstention – 1 (Jim Walsh)
Motion carries.
Correspondence
Memo from Adam Lougee – Addison County Regional Planning, regarding Chapter 117 changes.
Letter from the ANR regarding a notice of conditional use for Pete Norris, Sr., development.
Bank Statement for the Planning Grant.
New Business
Keith Hall indicated that Supervisor from Pike Industry called and indicated that they would like to install a permanent asphalt machine. The current machine is temporary. Would Pike's need a building permit? Would the ZBA need to grant the permit? Allen Karnatz indicated "yes" to both questions.
Allen Karnatz indicated that Brandy Saxton from the Addison County Regional Planning was on board to help with the Town Plan Grant. Brandy would like to meet with the Planning Commission on Jan. 27, 2005 at 7PM to go over the rewriting of the Town Plan.
The Planning Commission has been invited by the Town of New Haven Select Board to join their meeting on January 18, 2005 at 6:30 PM to discuss the Village Designation Zone.
Old Business
None
Tom Boise made the motion to adjourn the meeting, Allen Karnatz 2nd.
Discussion – none
Vote: Yes – 7 No – 0 Abstention – 0
Motion carries.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:45 PM.
Respectfully Submitted By:
Karen Gallott